The Cloaked Tatters

S1E13 Into the Mouth of Madness We Go

• Sandra Labo and Candy Fantastic • Season 1 • Episode 13

Share episode

Send us a text

Come take a stroll into insanity with us as we discuss the movie, "In the Mouth of Madness". In this episode we talk about the horror tropes that lead us into John Carpenter's mind to create a world rich with trauma, horror, and uncertainty. 

Support the show

Sandi:

Well, hello everyone. Welcome to the Cloaked Tatters podcast, my name is Sandi,

Candy:

And I'm Candy.

Sandi:

And today we are going to do our first ever sort of pseudo movie review. on a movie that when we first started getting together back in February and learning about each other and learning about each other's tastes, we talked about this movie, I think either in a parking lot or on the phone. And we both went, Oh yeah, that's such a good movie. And we're going to Review and give you some commentary about how this movie may intersect with mental health issues, specifically some trauma, madness, insanity. And the movie is called, from 1994, In the Mouth of Madness, by John Carpenter. Yes!

Candy:

One of my favorites. Yes.

Sandi:

This was a movie that I, I remember it was right before I got married and I came home from work. I was working at Pizza Hut and I think I'd worked, we closed at midnight so I didn't get home until like 1, 1 30 to almost 2 o'clock in the morning and I rented it from Blockbuster on my way to work that day knowing that I needed a horror movie. I've been at this a long time. Y'all like my release and my after work thing is like, what are you going to do? Watch a horror movie? Cause of course you are. So I went to blockbuster before four o'clock, picked up in the mouth of madness. Couldn't wait to see it. Got home at one 30 was hanging out in my bedroom, cleaning myself off from the pizza stink. And I watched it. mouth agape, my brain on fire, and then immediately rewound it and watched it again right away because blockbuster. And also it was insanely, insanely good. And that's one of a handful of movies I've done that

Candy:

I just rewatched it last night with Mike and it was fun sitting and analyzing it, watching it from that point of view, but also sitting there with somebody who's never seen it before. Or any, I don't know if he's seen. Any John Carpenter film, you know, um, the first time I saw it was with my friend Jen, and I don't even remember where we were, but it had just come out, and I think it was on VHS. Oh my God. It was on VHS,

Sandi:

Oh,

Candy:

but I know, right. But I remember the feeling that it left me with, it was just, especially the scene with the kid on the bicycle when they first get into the town. Yeah, that has stuck in my mind all these years. Yeah.

Sandi:

So if we're ever driving somewhere together and have the opportunity to be in the country and see what appears to be a young prepubescent boy riding a bike with a blue jean jacket on, we probably shouldn't look in the rearview mirror.

Candy:

Correct. Oh, there have been so many moments where I'm driving at night in where there isn't any kind of ambient light and it's dark behind me. I can't see anything. And all I can think about is that whole scene where they're driving in the car.

Sandi:

Yeah.

Candy:

Long lasting.

Sandi:

Yes, for sure. Core memory installed.

Candy:

Yep.

Sandi:

I love it. Well, so that's what we're going to be talking about today. So we hope you'll join us. We'll go for about 45 minutes today because I don't think you want to stick around for an hour or more of a movie review, but we often have some really fun and engaging things to say. So stick around for this. It's our first one. We'll see how this goes. So Candy, you want to get us started with some of the things that are for you like pivotal or stick out in this movie?

Candy:

So watching it this time, and I was fascinated watching through this lens. I wanted to make note of when he started losing his sanity, shall we say, right? And I'm like, okay, okay. What, what are some things that are happening? Well, he goes through a number of traumas. You know, uh, the first one where Cane's agent goes after him with a fucking axe, you know, like, out of the blue, he doesn't even know who Sutter Cane is. And this guy is like trying to kill him with an ax, right? And he's safe from that. He, so not only, I guess that would be two traumas in one, the guy, first of all, going after him and then being killed in front of him by the police officer, you know, that keeps him from murdering. I'm struggling with his name.

Sandi:

Trent

Candy:

John Trent. Yes. Thank you. Yeah, that's

Sandi:

Played by the ever amazing Sam Neill. So don't even get us started on that. We could do episodes of like weeks

Candy:

we could do a whole episode on Sam Neill. And then, The other one that I made note of, there could be more in between, but the other big one that I made note of was the old lady at the, the hotel at Hobbs End with her husband, you know, that whole thing that seeing her chopping up her husband. And all the monsters, that whole fucking scene.

Sandi:

I think that we want to just say right up front, um, if you've made it this far, there, there will be spoilers. So sorry if we ruin it for you, but it's, we just, we have to talk about it. We're chomping at the bit too.

Candy:

Oh gosh, yeah, meant to add that at the beginning.

Sandi:

we did it. It's fine. So, so the spoilers start exactly now. So those scenes that you're talking about, the hotel clerk and clearly one of the owners, it sounds like, it feels like they own that place. Like it's this little tiny, like, you know, kind of quaint but horrifying place to stay. And she's, she's got her husband bound, stripped down to, I think his underwear, and he's, he's got his mouth taped shut, I think, and he's underneath the cabinet. No? Maybe the mouth's not taped shut.

Candy:

I'm pretty sure he's completely naked, and I don't believe that he was gagged. I don't remember him being

Sandi:

Because he's mumbling, and, and they hear something, and they're like, what, what's going on? She's like, oh, nothing. It's, no. Yeah. And just sort

Candy:

like, nothing to see here!

Sandi:

just move on with your life, and meanwhile, she's like kicking her husband underneath, and then the next thing you know, well, he's not a main character who sticks around for very long.

Candy:

Right. So after that, when he leaves the fucking hotel, he's like, I have had it. Y'all are fucking crazy. He goes to the bar in town, right? Or this little tavern, pub, whatever. And the, the dad, the dad from the church confrontation is sitting in there. Or he, he comes in and joins them. Yeah, that's right. So Trent is sitting and having a drink. The guy walks in with his shotgun. Is that right? I hope I'm not mixing up my scenes. Anyway, they're having a conversation and Trent is like, well, you guys sure know how to put on a good show kind of thing. You know, all the actors, he's still not thinking that what is going on is real. Thinks it's all staged as part of this like publicity hoax, right? Until. The guy blows his fucking head off in front of him and then we get to see Trent starting to question what is reality versus what isn't. And it leads us into what you had mentioned about, it ties into when Insanity takes over,

Sandi:

Yes,

Candy:

for one, in the macro.

Sandi:

yes, it would be, he's, he's in the micro, and it's happening to him, but what happened in the macro is making what's happening in him happen,

Candy:

Mmhmm.

Sandi:

making him fucking crazy.

Candy:

Yeah, and question what reality is and One of my favorite things to look for in movies is the breakdown of the psyche Like how much of a beating can somebody take mentally before they start to lose their shit? And I love looking for that moment in a movie. I'm like, Oh, this is going to fucking do it. This'll be, this'll be that moment. And so it was really cool looking at it from that point of view.

Sandi:

Yeah, I too am very motivated by movies and very excited by movies, but that include what happens to people. I mean, that's the whole, one of the, that's one of the whole reasons I became a therapist, right. Is to like, how do people do the things that they do and then how, what they do affects the person they're doing it to. because I guess I'm a person that has had that stuff done to them of like, Oh, well, why am I like, we made the, you know, we made the stickers. Trauma makes me weird. Like, well, what's the motivation for these, these people to be doing the things that they're doing? And then how does that ultimately impact and change and maybe toxify the person it's being done to? And this film has this very sort of Blase, like, well, welcome to the mind fuck. Okay. We have this guy who is being brought into the asylum and the people who are running the asylum don't seem like they should be in charge because we find out later they should not be. But even from the very beginning, you see you walk into that insane asylum and you're like, Oh, that doc is not right. Like something's not right.

Candy:

not right.

Sandi:

not right here. Um, and then they play the carpenters song, which is sort of funny cause John Carpenter and then we play the carpenters song. Is that a ploy? But it is this idea that like we've already got this song that all the inmates are singing it. you know, and like they're together and they're, they're together in their madness. And Trent comes in and he's like, this is all crazy. Like what's going on? No, not this too. So it really just starts off with this bang of like, okay, we're going to test you as the audience. Is this reality? Or is the thing we're going to show you next the reality. It's up to you to figure it out.

Candy:

Right. And I love the song in and of itself is the first, the line is we've only just begun.

Sandi:

yeah,

Candy:

Right.

Sandi:

Which I think that it's, it's sort of like, I don't know. It reminds me a little bit of like, oh, well, you see a nice suburban family and everything is like white picket fence. And then when you learn what goes on behind closed doors, in some places you go, and it's like the carpenters, you know, this very wholesome, lovely song about love and looking forward to the future. And yeah, that's not this movie. There's not a whole lot of good to look forward to.

Candy:

at all. Right. They do a really good job of letting us know that that's not going to be that kind of movie when the music fades out and the lights go down.

Sandi:

One of my favorite scenes is the hand knocking on the window. And he looks up and it's like, Oh, you know, mayhem is just about to fucking ensue. This is not going to be good. And then I think we're immediately taken to that present time where he's, you know, sitting with his boss and things are normal. And then the ax, the ax guy comes.

Candy:

Yeah, it's so he, he turns around and you get the outline of somebody that he's talking to. And he said, well, this is a lousy way to end

Sandi:

Uh huh.

Candy:

Yeah, and then we're transported into how did we get

Sandi:

Yeah.

Candy:

Why is this man in an institution?

Sandi:

I think that one of the sort of social and political or cultural themes that runs underneath this for me is that it's like, Well, let me show you when things get really bad for people, for humans. Um, abuses of humans increases. Let me go backwards and make a timeline for you of all the ways that we can got here, almost like the missteps, you know, and John Carpenter, if we know nothing about him is that he's, he's sort of, got this idea that we're being manipulated by a lot of different sources, media being one of them and politics being another one. And like, if we go back to They Live. Look at that movie and what that's all about. The rampant capitalism. I know you love that movie, you know And it was very reactionary toward Reagan being elected It was just the is it out his John saying you know what this is fucked and they're trying to sell you a line of business Don't accept that and you can see that in this movie too, which I love

Candy:

I am a huge fan of underlying themes. You know, even as a kid, like watching cartoons and shit, Transformers, She-Ra He Man and all that. Like there was an underlying moral story. Like, there's, this isn't just like, gratuitous violence and gore and mindfuck, like, there's a message here, and I love that.

Sandi:

Yeah. And I think that horror generally, if we just kind of go macrocosm for a minute, horror generally does that. It shows, it tries to tell us the stories and show us of the heinous things that humans often do to each other or to the planet or to the world or to whatever, to themselves even. And, and how is that working out for us? You know,

Candy:

Right.

Sandi:

and, and I like those films that sort of have that in your face. Like if you're not paying enough attention to the man behind the curtain and how he's mechanizing things for you to do and be and say, you're, you're, you're missing a whole other reality. And so largely when I think of like the perception of reality for this film. Is this a large, is there a larger message here of the things that you think are reality and that you're so very sure of? Maybe ask yourself, are you really sure?

Candy:

Right. And how would you know? How would you know? Because, If going back to what media is feeding us, if you can't find an original source or like a real, a true source, how can you tell what reality is?

Sandi:

Right.

Candy:

And it's my favorite thing about this movie is like, what, what's real and what is in the mind? And, and I mean, by the end, does it really matter?

Sandi:

Right. No, it, it doesn't seem like it matters. Um, that theme of the perception of reality and how either bad or good things can appear on the surface sort of ties into like, the end result of all of that. How does it end? How does humanity end? How does the reign of rampant greed and capitalism end? How does the way we're treating people in abusive ways and normalizing that in society, how does that all end? And I, I, I don't know, this movie is just a fucking marvel. The more I think about it, the more I'm just like, Oh, I want to sit and watch it again, again, again.

Candy:

I know. I know. I can't even count how many times I have watched this movie.

Sandi:

So in talking about the idea of how we end things, we wanted to mention and make sure that we address that John Carpenter has a string of three films specifically, one from 1982 called The Thing, one from 1987 called The Prince of Darkness, and now In the Mouth of Madness in 1994. And all three of those things, those movies, we wanted all three of those movies center around the idea of humanity going kaput and how does it happen? So in The Thing, it happens in this, you know, arctic space station of sorts, and somehow we get aliens that decide, like, much like Invasion of the Body Snatchers, they're going to take over our shape and our form. And when that happens, now you don't know who's real. and who's the duplicate. So again, another test of what is reality. And so it plays with those themes. And then the reality at the end of the thing is that they have been replaced and everyone in the camp has either been killed or replaced. And now, guess what? The next people that come in, that shit's not going to go well. And that's how it ends in that movie. It's bleak.

Candy:

Going with everybody's been replaced. That, that is the same thing at the end of In the Mouth of Madness. Sanity is no longer the majority. It's one of my favorite lines in the book and it's been replaced by the insane. Right. You know, um, Linda, the that he sends, uh, she said, one of my favorite lines is I just like being scared. Cane's work scares me. And he says, It's not like it's real. She says, it's not real from your point of view right now. Reality shares your point of view. What scares me about Cane's work is what might happen if reality shared his point of view. Oh my god, that conversation, that whole conversation that they have. I, I love that. There's so many like little tidbits of foreshadowing in the story. And going back to what you were just saying about, How does it end? You know, people being replaced by something else. Uh, the norm being replaced by the foreign or whatever. In this case, the sane being replaced by the insane as majority.

Sandi:

It's just absolutely

Candy:

Because of media.

Sandi:

Yeah. Because of

Candy:

Oh my God.

Sandi:

because of the rampant consumption and the sinking in and people think if they're on the Internet 5, 4, 6 hours a day reading stories about something that they just can't stop looking at. and they can't realize I'm literally being fed this. Like, Cane is feeding his readers. I'm going to give you all of these books, and the more of my books you read, the more you're going to fall into an alternate reality that I ultimately want to be real. So I made it real. And if people, people sit on the internet and consume and consume and consume, they're going to be hard pressed to find anything that challenges that reality because the algorithm is sending the things in just like the publishers are sending the books right in a row of this is the rest of the story.

Candy:

Exactly. And just like in the movie where once we had news, we had newspapers, magazines. And then, uh, television, you know, came along and we had it fed to us that way,

Sandi:

had radio in the middle of that.

Candy:

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was this progression and in, in the movie, you know, Trent, you know, when he gets back and he's talking to the publisher, you know, he's like, well, we need to stop production of this. Like, this can't go on. He's like, Oh, it's already happened. He's like, well, we have to stop printing of it. And he's like, That's not, you know, that's not going to be a thing and he mentioned something about, uh, like maybe there was hope because not everybody's going to be reading it and the publisher's like, well, the movie's coming out next month or something. So even if somebody isn't a reader, they're still going to get the shit,

Sandi:

right. That's right.

Candy:

And it reminds me of how our progression from. Tangible media like the, the newspapers and whatnot to radio to television now to social media where it is just an onslaught and how do we filter out the real from the false?

Sandi:

Right. For sure.

Candy:

Oh,

Sandi:

What, what, what I have this, I have this image in my head right now of my dad telling me a story that when he first listened to War of, when he first was exposed to War of the Worlds was on a radio program and it scared the hell out of him. And John Carpenter is about the same age my dad would be if he were still alive. And I wonder if for him that Aw, and shock of the stories that he heard, like sort of resonated in his brain as a young person and led him to like, think about like, well, war of the worlds. I mean, literally, what does that title sound like? It's a war between worlds, likely to perhaps more, and there, there, somebody's going to fucking lose. And like, if you think about a kid listening to those stories, you can kind of see that show up, that sort of childlike wonder at the fear of the things that are right here. And I think his movies often transmit that message of like, I want you to be shocked and I want you to check yourself and you just never know. So stay on your toes.

Candy:

Question. your reality. Cause that War of the Worlds, when that came out, people were killing themselves. They thought it was real because they didn't have the normal introduction that this is, this is your, you know, reading hour. I don't remember what it was called, but it didn't have that normal one. It just went into a fake broadcast.

Sandi:

right. That's

Candy:

And so people thought it was real

Sandi:

Yeah,

Candy:

and responded accordingly. And, oh, oh, it gives me chills thinking about it. I can't even imagine, but we have that all the time now.

Sandi:

Yeah, right.

Candy:

is our reality. Something. Oh man, this is kind of a mind fuck. Actually, the more we talk about it and connecting it with culture nowadays and especially social media with algorithms and all this kind of bullshit.

Sandi:

Well, and I think part of Carpenter's, if I had to be in his head, I can imagine he might agree with me if I said the following, that somehow the stories that he tells, that may or may not have their roots and origins in the fantastical parts of his childhood mind, you know, cause we always bring those things with us, right? We've got core memories installed as children. And some of those memories are of being deeply afraid of something or or being terribly happy and excited about something or seeing something brand new that like nobody ever saw before, you know, like a laser disc. What is a laser disc? Like who, like that kind of like awe and wonder. And so we take that back. That's not just now. That's not just 20 years ago. It's not just from the 1950s. He's telling stories that you could easily place that any, you Eon of human life.

Candy:

Right.

Sandi:

same. It's the same fucking story over and over and over again, but it's different characters and more progress and more technology and more awareness of the human psyche and just that constant knowledge. And I think some of some of the information that I have gotten from many of his films, sometimes we're just, We're going to be overloaded with information that's simply not good for us and asking the questions just because we can does that mean we should?

Candy:

I love that. Just because we can, does that mean we should? It's, it's what, what's that frickin doctor in Jurassic Park?

Sandi:

Oh yeah, uh,

Candy:

Right?

Sandi:

character. Jeff Goldblum?

Candy:

Jeff Goldblum, yeah. Yeah.

Sandi:

It's, you're right, because it's not him, it's the, it's the scientist who comes in. Yeah, and I can't remember what he says specifically, but it's something akin to that.

Candy:

Yep.

Sandi:

Yeah. Like maybe this wasn't such a good fucking idea, you guys. Like we're going to get eaten, perhaps. I don't know. You know?

Candy:

We were so obsessed with the idea. Or of what we could do. Nobody stopped to question whether or not we should do it. Something like that.

Sandi:

Right. And I, I think that, um, we kind of missed following up on that other film, but the trilogy of the perception of reality and how things end, the other one is from 1987, the Prince of Darkness. We need to talk about that for like four minutes because it, again, Same sort of themes, but it's this alternate, it's a direct contrast to the Bible and God, and it's a different God and a different book. And it's going to, we're going to force this upon you regardless of whether or not you believe in it. And you're going to get injected with or thrown up on by the orange, the green goo that's in the basement that's growing and has a soul and is growing in power. And then at the end of the movie, again, so fucking bleak, everyone in the house where they've gone to investigate this thing has been either killed or turned. Same thing in the thing. And same thing in this one, which I think you wanted to get to, um, how that manifests in, In the Mouth Madness, but that idea that we are all being replaced by this infectious fucking thing. And if you're lucky, that won't happen to you. So like a dire warning of like too much information and too much curiosity that literally then kills the entire human race. bleak as fuck

Candy:

it is bleak, but it makes a really good point. And it's almost like he's trying to drill it into our heads. Like, hey, if you touch the hot stove, you're gonna get burned. You know, and yet us as a human race, we're like, yeah, I know, but look at how cool that is. Like that fire's awesome. I want to touch it,

Sandi:

for sure. For sure.

Candy:

like, well, that's a blue flame. Maybe that'll be different. No, whether it's fucking aliens, pod people, whole, whole other different director, but, or, or sanity, you know, consuming too much. it's another line that I like that the editor says in the movie was Cane's work has been known to have an effect on his less stable readers. Did I already say that? I love, I love that line. What does that mean to be less stable? You know, how does one know that they're firmly grounded in reality enough that something isn't going to come along to alter their perception of what is real? And what isn't, you know, look at politics nowadays

Sandi:

Yes, exactly. The parallels

Candy:

yeah, exactly. Like things are made up. Like it's 100 percent fiction on, on both sides. And it's like, how the fuck are we supposed to tell what's, what's real and what's not, you know? And if we don't, and we live in a society where we don't get enough. Um, mental help, you know, a lot of us are really fucked up and that gives us unstable footing. And so going back to her quote, you know, on, uh, less stable readers, less stable consumers. And it's not any kind of insult or any judgment there, less stable because we don't get the help that we need, you know, we go through all sorts of trauma and we talk about this in all sorts of different ways in other episodes, we go through all these different kinds of trauma, something gets thrown at us that's like, What the fuck? How are we supposed to dissect that when we can't even, like, go about our normal lives, emotionally stable or whatever,

Sandi:

well, just to that, that point, and to add onto that, I think he also, and maybe this was not the intention, but I can certainly, if we're, if we're looking at it from today's eyes, I think that we can add this too, is that he is showing that you can be just as diluted or deceived in the big cities as you can in more rural towns.

Candy:

that is a good point

Sandi:

that no matter where your socioeconomic educational status, religious status, spiritual, like it ha, it takes down shit in the city and it's takes down shit in the country.

Candy:

Right. Ooh, didn't even think about that. But you're right.

Sandi:

Like you ain't special if you live in the high rise in New York city and you're also up, you're also at risk if you live in this other place and the realities and think about, right, well, and then think about how the difference in their realities are. the people that live in the very small rural countryside. I don't want to say rural, but more rural. They're not living in the big city. They're, they're completely bought into their own, well, this is the reality. Monsters exist here, and we're, we are a monster. We were created, you know, by the author, God, if you will, because

Candy:

well, calls himself God.

Sandi:

Cane is wanting to be, you Cane thinks he's God and thinks that his books are the Bible. Well, oh, oh, oh, shit. And then the people in the rural area fell for it. And then the people in the high rise also fell for it, but they see it in a different way. The rural side, and I don't know if you would agree with this, but, and check me on it if you think I'm wrong, but that rural side shows a little bit more, being easily led into that whole town, right? Because they're part of the story and they're literally living story. So they're like a part of it and they're okay to a degree being a part of it, even though there's like reticence, you know, like I think of the dad shot himself. Well, I thought everything was And then my kid, you know, ate his mom or his sister, whatever he does and it attacks them. And oh my God, mayhem ensues and that's why he kills himself. Cause he's like, I just, all this, all this traumatic shit is happening. This reality is no good. So go back to God and maybe he gets recycled by Cane and he can write another story after that. I don't know what happens,

Candy:

Right. Right.

Sandi:

see that, that, and then it's like the capitalistic side of it, the New York stuff and the city stuff at the publisher is almost like, Well, we know this is happening, but it makes us money. So we don't care. So we'll do it anyway. We'll still put the books up. It's fine.

Candy:

I would say that they don't even know that it's a reality and it doesn't matter. The, the rural people, the people in Hobbs End are an actual part of it. They're living it. And in order to get it to the. The city folk, they have to turn it into a work of fiction, it has to be written out for them, so that they can get infected with the same, I don't know, I use the word virus, you know, as the other, the insanity,

Sandi:

Well, the reason I say that the reason I said that they, they know about it is that they know that it, but their reality of what's happening is different. They ha they live city, so they have probably carjackings. And then we've got a guy with an ax at a nice uptown cat patio cafe coming in and axing the window and trying to kill Trent. That should happens in that. Place all the time. Maybe not with an axe, but like threats the other happen within that. so they're just, they ignore all that. They ignore the, you know, the bad parts of the town and they're living in the high rise and they're like, well, we're going to make money off the despair.

Candy:

Okay. I smell what you're cooking. Got it. Yep. I would, I would definitely agree with that.

Sandi:

this whole like what is real and what isn't you can just look at each one of the characters and go they're all Individually living in their own reality

Candy:

Right.

Sandi:

a shit show. I love it. It's so good.

Candy:

It is. It is. And I loved, like, just from, uh, You know, our last episode, we were talking about fear. So, and I just got done editing that episode. So it was in my, my mind a lot. And just from a horror movie standpoint, there were so many things I had like a list here, and I just want to mention these. Because I think it's fucking brilliant how many horror aspects there were to get under the viewer's skin to bring us into that, that feeling afraid or being afraid of what is going on, you know, first of all, you've got, um, the church, you know, there's a line in there. It says religion seeks discipline through fear, you know, so there's, there's, uh, anything religious for me, like horror movie wise. Oh, my God, religion and aliens. I am like,

Sandi:

Yeah.

Candy:

you know, there's the, there's insanity. Of course, there's darkness, fear of the unknown, an apocalyptic event. You know, the, whole fucking world going insane and killing each other. Oh, and mutating,

Sandi:

Yes. Yes.

Candy:

mutating, like in The Thing, you know, turning into this other, oh God, tentacles and shit, you know

Sandi:

Yeah, right.

Candy:

evil, um, non consent.

Sandi:

Yes.

Candy:

You know, uh, unable to rationalize what's going on, lack of understanding, the old door, the portal to another universe, the old ones, if you will, and we can't, we can't end this, um, podcast without mentioning that this was, had a lot of elements from H. P. Lovecraft

Sandi:

Yes Oh god, yeah

Candy:

You know, and, and so he mentions the old ones. I'm all, yeah,

Sandi:

right,

Candy:

you know, bring on Cthulhu. Right. Um, and then, then there's the, the good old fashioned jump scares. There's a line in there where I think who mentions, I don't even remember horrible, slimy things, inescapability and who says that, who says this? I think it's Cane that says every species can smell its own extinction.

Sandi:

I think he said that too. Yes.

Candy:

And he said that I'm all, Oh, and so what are we going to do? We're going to go fucking crazy. is, what is the effect called when. Something is close to extinction. And so it's like in, addiction, you know, you want to quit smoking. So right up to that point, we're going to quit smoking. You smoking like a ton, you know, you know, that things are going to get really, really bad. So it's just barrel into it.

Sandi:

When you were talking just now, I was thinking to ask you if you could speak to a little bit of how the people who are in Hobb's End, what do they turn into? Because we talked about how that compare how the comparison of like the thing it's people and then the alien Transforms them and they get duplicated and then in the prince of darkness the people who are you know? God fearing science people They're they're they're their worldview is Bible and God and then it's new Bible and new God, which Prince of Darkness is born and takes over everything. And sort of that's becomes like how everyone will be now. So in your mind, what does, what happens to the people in the Mouth of Madness who were turned into monsters?

Candy:

Well, they not only start to like deform physically, But mentally they become like these ravenous murderous people, like it's, but they know that they're being written. It's, it's like, it's weird. It's like they know what's happening to them and they are powerless to do anything about it. And it's like, I would say that that lends to them becoming these mad, like almost rabid kind of people, you know? Uh, violent, just violent.

Sandi:

Well, just to jump in here, it makes me think about, When people like I'm in conceptualizing this from like the now and maybe not Carpenter's intent. I don't know. I haven't thoroughly researched, researched it enough to know that he's either said something like this or not, but this idea that we're in this place and we're forced to live this life and this is the way we live and we're forced to consume and we're forced to do and we're forced to work and do all of the, the life things that. If those, if that's written for us and we're all characters, it's the reality is here that they're turning into monsters and getting disfigured and becoming murderous over on the other side in the city. They're doing it in suits and on nice patios. And this sort of cleaned up version of, again, the same reality, but differently perceived.

Candy:

You're right. Like in Hobbs end, it's more raw. It's more of like a, gritty, raw, murderous type, whereas in the city, like you were just saying, it's, it's like refined people. Like the, the guy walking up, do you read Sutter Cane? When, when Trent does that, it's very calm and collected rather than like this, you know, these fucking weird ass, like freaky children running after this dog, you know, it's, it's, oh, that's interesting. I'm going to have to watch that again after having talked about this with you That's at it that lens. there's Oh yeah.

Sandi:

we learn about, you know, each other, how we see certain things. Um, but these movies are this movie in particular, just so good. And I did want to mention that oddly enough, and perhaps not oddly at all, my dad, who suffered with bipolar disorder. and was not diagnosed until late in life, had, I think my dad had, and he had a lot of drugs in his system across span of decades and various things, most of it was pot, but pot, alcohol, there were some infusions of other things along the way.

Candy:

Yeah.

Sandi:

he wasn't always thinking in his right mind when he was using those substances. And he would come up with these fantastical ideas that felt very much like delusions. And I had undiagnosed and untreated bipolar disorder and drug use will do that to people sometime. And he loved, loved, loved this movie.

Candy:

I could see that, you know, and that's what I find fascinating about it.

Sandi:

Yeah, and knowing that he really liked this movie, I, the last time I watched it, I kind of sat in my head and was like, I bet dad really liked this and this and this and this, because I think for a long time, my dad often felt like he was losing his mind.

Candy:

Okay. Okay.

Sandi:

The ups and downs.

Candy:

so he like would have been able to relate to it on that level, not understanding what's real and what's not. And the confusion and, and the emotions that it can lead to. Oh man. And Sam Neill, holy shit. Does he do a good job of, of losing his shit?

Sandi:

know. I have never seen a movie that I did not like him in. And even if I didn't like the movie, I was laser focused on Sam Neill's performance.

Candy:

Yep.

Sandi:

Remember when we watched Possession together?

Candy:

Possession. Yes. I was just thinking about that. I'm like, it's Sam Neill. I'm sold. I'm like,

Sandi:

And were like, Oh my God, this movie. is so amazing.

Candy:

It was so good. We we should definitely do a thing on that.

Sandi:

God, those performances, but he just, he can, he's, he just nailed this role. And I, um, I am actually going to go watch it again tonight. I tried to watch it last night and I had watched it just a few weeks ago before we decided to do an episode on it and has since forgot because so only so many file cabinets pull out in the brain anymore. But,

Candy:

Oh yeah.

Sandi:

Um, but I, I, really just every scene I'm like, Oh, and if I would be remiss if I didn't mention the soundtrack, typical John Carpenter synth and guitar heavy, like

Candy:

Yes. Yes.

Sandi:

much retro style to it. Like the, like the, um, soundtrack to Christine. Some of, and, and also, um, what was the other one? The music from Halloween three with the masks season of the witch, just that it has this heavy eighties and I know it was the 94, but it could have easily with intro soundtrack been, you know, five to eight years earlier. I just, I love it so much.

Candy:

Well, it's got the same thing like in They Live. Yeah, it's very distinctive. As soon as I started hearing the music, I like, I squeed in my Freaking seat. so excited to be watching it again. Just it sets the tone. I was, I'm, I have been conditioned by John Carpenter and his musical scores.

Sandi:

same, same. Yeah. He just, he, he has a gift. Um, God, I'm going to be one of the saddest horror bitches in the world when he finally doesn't live here anymore. It's going to break my heart and I know there will be sobbing. there will sobbing.

Candy:

Yeah.

Sandi:

Such a good, such a great, on my life. yeah, such a great guy too. Just a, uh, just a guy's guy, a nice, decent person. I have, I have loved everything, mostly everything he's ever done.

Candy:

Yeah.

Sandi:

All right. anything else you want to finish up for today before we head out?

Candy:

Just one thing is another line from the movie that I want to end with. is when Sam Neill's character Trent says, anybody's capable of anything. I love that

Sandi:

Yeah,

Candy:

because there are so many things that go into that and our perception.

Sandi:

I see that in some societal changes we've been experiencing with the advent of, you know, fake news and manufactured propaganda, um, that people who you would never think would be, you know, either hateful or, bigoted or racist or homophobic or transphobic, like people that you just would think would be kind to all people and live and let live, you know, all of a sudden, when you were talking about like the rabid frothing, you know, that's, that's what comes to mind for me is people who are trying to exert power and control and agency over everyone else's life and, and force that upon people. And you just like, how did you get from being this type of person to somebody who would do all of the, like take actionable offenses against other humans. And we have a lot of stuff that is circling in, you know, the internet because anybody with any kind of anybody with a computer or a phone can get on the internet and write whatever the fuck they want, regardless of how it's, Whether it's wrong or toxic or inaccurate or unhealthy or unhelpful and, and then we make money off of that and it's like that exact theme is sort of played in this movie too.

Candy:

Yes, it is.

Sandi:

people that we didn't think would be capable of great harm, sometimes they surprise us.

Candy:

Yes, they do. Especially with the breakdown of the psyche.

Sandi:

That's right. That's right. And driven by, you know, fear and malice and upsetness and grievance and unhealed wounds in a general way. Yeah. So, all right. Well, we're kind of ending on like a Debbie Downer note. I hope this was fun before we got here. I love it. had to be said.

Candy:

Right. It did. I agree. This has been fun. I have loved talking about this. And this is one of my favorite, favorite movies of all time.

Sandi:

Me too, me too. Well, we're, uh, creeping up on Halloween, so we're going to be doing a few more of these because, A, they're fun for us, and hopefully they'll be fun for you too, and maybe you'll get exposed to some films that you haven't seen, and you can send us some messages about what you think about them too.

Candy:

Thank you for joining us today.

Sandi:

Thank you so much you guys. Peace out.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Candy Fantastic

Co-host
Head Shot

Sandi Labo

Co-host